tv Justice With Judge Jeanine FOX News June 10, 2012 1:00am-2:00am PDT
>> judge jeanine: tonight on "justice." a new sketch of the suspect wanted in the murder of morgan harrington and the brutal rape of another woman. a $150,000 reward to any one who helps capture this monster. and he is an average looking guy but this guy killed his wife and slit the throats of his two little children and then rigged his home to explode but even that didn't destroy all the evidence. tonight the fbi is searching for robert william fisher. and a serial bomber terrorizes arizona. three thrash light bombs have exploded in public places. five people injured. >> it is some type of terrorism
when people are afraid now when clef they see is flash light they have to call it? >> judge jeanine: welcome to "justice." she was a beautiful college student at a metallica concert who went missing in october of 2009. her body found just months later. now, the fbi has released a new sketch of the man they think killed her. and he is also wanted for a brutal rape four years earlier. morgan harrington's parents think there are even more victims. jill and dr. dan harrington join us from charlottesville, virginia. welcome to both of you. >> i can't imagine the loss you have suffered. grateful you made the decision to join us tonight. doctor, i will start with you. can you tell us factually what happened on the night that morgan disappeared? >> yes, morgan was attending
the metallica concert at the university of virginia with three other friends and after the first set morgan went to the restroom by herself and apparently in the restrooms found to have had an injury to her face. subsequently she somehow m meandered to the front of the building and left the building and was not allowed rentry to the building. >> woo do we know how she suffered that injury to her face? >> we do not know. >> judge jeanine: go ahead, then. >> after morgan left the arena and was not allowed reentry she he wandered around the parking lot in front of the arena for probably about an hour and ultimately ended up with -- ultimately ended up with -- with several basketball players
being seen near the copely bridge. she subsequently was on the bridge and that was the last time she was seen. >> and when did you first hear that she was missing? >> okay. we are are having technical problems here. this was october 17 of 2009 that she goes to the concert. she then goes to the lady's room and has some kind of injury on her face and is not allowed reentry to the arena and she calls her friends. is that correct, doctor? >> she actually did not call anybody. she actually received one call after she left the arena from her friend who was in the arena. and at that time morgan said she was not going to be able to come back into the concert and would find her way home. the confusing piece of this is
home was two and a half hours away in blacksburg virginia and morgan's car was in the parking lot and morgan had a designated drive sore she did not have her keys. so morgan was in the parking lot without transportation and said that she would find a way home. subsequently ended up on the bridge and was reported to be hitch hiking and that was the last report that any one saw of morgan. >> judge jeanine: and jill, what did the police tell you about finding your daughter? >> well, in the missing phase which was really the hardest phase for us, we were told that it was quite likely that morgan would be found by a hunter once the leaves started to fall. >> judge jeanine: by a hunter? >> by a hunter. >> judge jeanine: and the police told you. she had not been found and they think a hunter would find her? >> and that was not adequate for us. we never wanted to sit back and wait passively for morgan to be
found and we wanted to find her and search for her. >> and we actually put together from a volunteer group that came and 2,000 people spent a weekend looking for morgan. we he subsequently also worked with the q center and about the time the center it was getting ready to do a search for morgan, morgan's body was found. >> judge jeanine: your daughter about's body is found three months later in an open field. were you told what the cause of death was? >> we do not know the cause of death. >> judge jeanine: the police did not tell you the cause of death? >> no. >> judge jeanine: do you think that is strange? >> we have come to find, i have little experience with law enforcement of any kind prior to this. but it is a very closed shop and it is a culture that is used to receiving information
but not disseminating it. even to victims' families, which has been frustrating at times but it seems to me like it is the nature of the beast. >> judge jeanine: well, it certainly wasn't when i was the d.a. let me ask you this. morgan was wearing a panterra t-shirt the night that she disappeared. t-shirt was found. can you tell us the circumstances surrounding the finding of the shirt? >> the t-shirt was found sort of displayed over a bush in the fraternity area of the university of virginia. actually it was about maybe a mile from where morgan was last seen. and certainly very far away from where morgan's body was ultimately found. we were unaware that the t-shirt had been it found for
many months. >> judge jeanine: the police didn't tell you that either. let me quickly move on to the fact that the dna found on your daughter's t-shirt was connected or matched to dna from an unsolved rape four years earlier and they had a search of that rapist in the unsolved rape case. why haven't they been able to find this guy? >> well, you know, often times sketches after a crime are notoriously inaccurate and again four years had passed so this was an individual that could have changed how he looked and got rid of a beard, you know, perhaps grew longer hair, perhaps shaved his head so -- >> judge jeanine: i don't mean to rush you. i want to get this out. even though the dna match was early in the year 2010 they didn't release the sketch of the guy whose dna it matched until july. why did it take so long? >> i don't know why it took so
long. but that was i think an important piece because it was released after the university of virginia students actually went home for summer. and this was in an area around the student population and i am told that there were some searches that occurred when the shirt was found but i honestly don't know the details of how much in depth those went. >> judge jeanine: very interesting. dan and jill, i want to thank you so much for beining with us it evening and we will sort through with our expert panel next. of course, she wanted to divorce h her husband. he vowed their kids would never go through that. one of them was right. arizona police looking for a serial bomber. who leaves flash lights rigged to explode around phoenix?
♪ >> judge jeanine: with me our all-star legal panel and forensic pathologist dr. wah. defense attorney and fox news contributor arthur aydala and mark fuhrman. mark, what conclusions can you draw about the guy that you just her morgan harrington's parents speak about. suspected rapist and now the person that killed their daughter. >> i would say if we have a case that is connected through dna four years prior he is probably a serial rapist and most probably isn't only operating in the area. the chances of him not having a victim in four years is remote. that means that he was either
some place where he could not get a victim such as the military, out of the country or in prison. >> but we know he wasn't in prison because there is no dna in the data bank that would match. this guy hasn't been arrest. >> it means he hasn't been arrested when they took dna. >> they say he is between 25 and 35. >> that is what a victim said. so we have a victim that is trying to predict somebody's age and we can't really base anything on that. we have to look at this, collecting dna isn't fool proof even now. so we have to actually assume one thing. he is a career criminal and his m.o. might have advanced to homicide but the evidence is not really there for that. but he certainly elevated his crime whether by the victim's fighting back or not. >> judge jeanine: it is interesting that the rape from 2005 which was six and a half hours away from where this
murder occurred is in the same area, you know. but doctor, i will go to you. she is basically morgan skeletonized after being in the field for three months. although there was some soft tissue what can you teak forensically from a body that has been skeletonized. >> take x-rays looking for evidence of bull let or any other injuries and you have to collect all of the forensic evidence including dna, blood, all different areas, all the different body cavities if anything was there looking for -- >> would you be able to tell, doctor if she had been raped. >> if skeletonized probably not. depending how much soft tissue and dna evidence is there. >> judge jeanine: is it normal
for a body to decompose in three months. >> she disappeared in early october and it was fairly warm and you have to consider factor because in the exposed air there is animal activity during the winter season, a lot of things can happen. >> judge jeanine: what is interesting about this, mark, and i will go back to you for a second. her body is found in the middle of a 750-acre farm. whoever took the body from where it was last left had to go through fields and a creek and gates and fences. what does that tell you? >> to me it doesn't tell me that somebody planned this. they might have been familiar with the area but they didn't plan it because now they know the body is going to be found within a period of time, it is a farm, that is absolute. to me it shows it was not an intentional homicide. maybe the victim found and it was the outcome of the rape. maybe it wasn't intentional
he got rid of the body. >> judge jeanine: the body is ten miles from where the shirt was. can you convict one? >> this is who you rely on, right? you rely on the doctor and pathologist and when you have a body skeletonized, the story is heartbreaking when talking to the parents, it was riveting. i keep thinking of little caylee anthony. now, hard that case was to prove because h her body was so decomposed. when you don't have the soft tissue and you can't see whether someone was choke, strangled, raped, it is so difficult. >> judge jeanine: she had broken ribs and broken bones, premortem, not post mortem. >> a difficult case to match up. there are things you do. on the dna issue you know, judge, because you face this all the time. we as defense attorneys argue
chain of custody issues. if means that you have dna but you don't have it on the body and any defense attorney is going to argue it is not conclusive and cannot show or demonstrate there is guilt with any defendant. >> judge jeanine: the t-shirt is laid out on fraternity row on top of the bushes and three weeks later. it it hasn't been there all three weeks because a million people passed. what does that tell you about a killer. >> a student saw the t-shirt and laid it there for somebody to recover because it was lost. people do, that even in new york. >> judge jeanine: do you think maybe it was a trophy. >> maybe. let's go back to one thing if the suspect is going to discard a t-shirt with blood on it from the victim and the victim was killed in his vehicle once they find out a possible suspect there is blood or hair or something in that vehicle. the case comes down to the detective and his interrogation skills.
>> judge jeanine: the problem is they didn't release the sketch until july when they had the dna in november. >> they didn't want to. i wouldn't have either because i would want to try to find the is suspect before he flees because that is an old sketch. >> judge jeanine: you know what he is supposed to look like, he hasn't been arrested i would let the sketch out. panel stick around. you are back latinoer in the show. >> next, do you know where this man is? the fbi wants your help tracking down one of the ten most wanted. robert william fisher is wanted for the brutal murders of his own families. later, robbing a bank probably seems like a good idea at the time but everything went down from there and now this guy is in our stupid criminal segment.
>> judge jeanine: robert william fisher committed one of arizona's most heinous crimes in 2001, bruteally murdering his wife and their two children and then setting the house on fire. he has been on the run since then despite being on the fbi's most wanted list. with me is a former detective from the scottsdale police department and fbi special agent. thank you so much for being with us this evening. t.j., i'm going to start with you. you have been on this case from the beginning. can you tell us what you were feeling or thinking when you were on the crime scene? >> a little bit of frustration. there were a lot of people there between law enforcement, between the fire department,
and then, of course, you had the neighborhood crowding around it because it is a very quiet neighborhood and something like this a tragedy that occurs it concerns everybody. but the most concerning aspect is when my partner and i walked to the rear of the house where the fire had blown the back of the walls out and we could see the victims lying in each separate bedroom at that point. that was very concerning to us. >> judge jeanine: can you you tell us, t.j., what did you learn about what happened in that house? >> what we learned as the day progressed is that robert fisher had slit the throats of his two children, slit the throat of his wife and then shot her in the head and john kirk ham stayed at the scene and he was the crime scene investigator. i went out with another detect
itive and went to where robert fisher was working as a respiratory therapist and interviewed several people that he was working with at the mayo hospital at the time. >> you interviewed the work hes. what do you find out about the man who slit the throats of his family? and this was all prior to the fire. >> he did it prior to the fire, that's correct. >> judge jeanine: what did you find out about this guy? >> i think the strangest aspect that we found out about robert fisher at least in interviewing numerous friends of his, numerous coworkers that he worked with at the hospital, i mean, judge, if i was to sit down and interview let's say four or five of your good friends they would give me three or four characteristics of your personality. with robert fisher what i found is really i don't believe whether his coworkers or
friends i don't believe anybody really knew this man. the only consistency with him with his personal characteristic was his arrogance and he was a control freak. >> judge jeanine: but no prior criminal record, right? >> no, none. >> judge jeanine: all right. >> none of that. >> judge jeanine: agent turgell, how has this guy who pay apparently ha is a back injury which makes him walk straight and tall how was he able to evade capture for 11 years? >> this is a particularly challenging investigation for us. he has a common look. an individual that is 6-foot tall, 190-pounds. a balding white male age 50. that pretty much covers a large segment of the population sew has the ability to blend in even with the issue with his back. he does have some characteristics and some
mannerisms which i think your viewers need to know about and that is the controlling aspect. the fact he is an avid outdoors mapp and he has a gold tooth in the upper left-hand portion of his mouth. he has the ability based upon his look to blend in unfortunately. >> judge jeanine: how can the public help locate this guy? i mean you described him physically but he was a respiratory therapist, right? would you think that he would be working in the medical profession now? >> i don't know exactly where he is working now or if he is working. i think the thing to key in for the fe viewers is look at his characteristics. an avid outdoorsman. we believe he will be some place where he can hunt and fish. we also believe he is an individual who if he is in some type of relationship with someone who would be very controlling. if there is a viewer who knows
and individual who fits this description who is is extremely controlling of any woman or any individual around him, who acts like a loner. , who is extremely controlling, that is the type of individual we are looking for and that is when you should call the fbi. >> judge jeanine: he had a back injury. would he need a medical assistance or a doctor's care? >> i don't believe so. the back injure arey was caused from an injury he received when was a paramedic. he does have a scar on o the lower are portion of his back and, yes, he does walk abnormally, abnormal posture. being an outdoorsman and hunter and fisherman, i don't believe he is going to require medical assistance. >> judge jeanine: and there was talk that -- and maybe i will go to t.j. on this. there was talk that he went into the woods or is in the
caves in arizona. do we have any sense of how he left, if he left arizona at all. in. >> westerlies the information that we have, we work very closely with our partners in the scottsdale police department and all of the other state and local federal partners here in arizona. the actual vehicle itself was found approximately ten days later near young, arizona, which is north of the city. the vehicle had two flat tires. however, the family dog was i believe found alive and well and he was last seen in northern arizona. >> judge jeanine: all right, thanks so much for being with us. and, of course, if is public has any information regarding robert william fisher please call your are local police or 1-800-call-fbi. now, you, a serial bomber on the loose in arizona. three ieds left in public
now, back to "justice," with judge jeanine. >> judge jeanine: the fbi has them on the top ten most wanted list but robert william fisher is still on the loose. dr. hua, arthur, joey jackson and mark fuhrman join us again. dr. hua, this animal sets his house on fire after he slits the throat of his family. how does the fire effect the forensics on the bodies? >> it won't effect in terms of determining the cause of death or the manner of death in this
case. probably will interfere a little bit evidence collection surrounding the body. >> judge jeanine: and when you say probably a little bit in terms of what? >> collecting all the evidence surrounding the body like the microscopic evidence collection. >> judge jeanine: is there some way if you can tell if they died of a or after the fire? >> it is easy. doing the autopsy, look at airways. in you are still alive you inhale the smoke into the airway and the young will turn black. secondly the carbon monoxide. if reality it is almost like cooking abody. if the fire was quick and strong you burn the an and tier layer. >> so the fire almost preserves the internal organ for forensic
evaluation? >> yes, he. >> judge jeanine: mark, this guy has no criminal record. he is in a respiratory therapist. he slits the throats of his wife and kids. what kind of animal does this? >> stalkings of spouses not allowing people to do anything and controlling their development. this is where you get these rage-based domestic murderers and the children probably ear and eyewits. >> this is fisher walking along. go ahead, mark, i just wanted you to you see him. he kind of walks abnormally straight. go ahead. >> the point of this is the kids were probably not the target of the homicide. they were just the unfortunate recipients of being eye and ear witnesses. >> judge jeanine: kill yourself if you feel miserable, you don't need to kill your wife and kids.
>> he slits everybodies this throat is he so already are planning his escape. he burns the house down to think he will cover the crime. the doctor already told you that was not going to cover anything. thank god for social media. we live in an age with the internet and facebook and face time. if he is alive. matily he does blend in because he is 50 and bald but the reality is that shows like this highlight -- i'm sorry. >> unbelievable. >> keep going you are oen a roll, hit it. >> if you have community involvement in any types of crimes and awareness. >> judge jeanine: hog wash it has been 11 years. >> the way he is described by the fbi it is like he is rambo. ran off into the woods and in the caves and living off the fat of the land. if furman coffined him the prosecution is easy and the circumstantial evidence is
overwhelming. a mountain of circumstantial evidence. >> judge jeanine: where is this guy? is he in mexico? where is he? >> he could be in venezuela. he seems like a smart enough guy to cross the border and go blend in. >> judge jeanine: and leaves with his dog in the car? >> but then. >> judge jeanine: he didn't kill the dog. he took the dog out of the house. >> the dog couldn't keep up with him. he winds up leaving the dog because probably it was slowing him down. >> the dog wasn't going to talk either. a male caucasian 6-foot tall in that size go so south america. quite a community of not only americans there but some of the countries where they look like a caucasian korean guys you are terrific. and dr. hua thank you for being with us this evening. thanks for coming on.
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glendale, arizona. three bombs planted in flash lights left in about public places suggest a serial bomber is in our midst. janelle mckee was hurt by one of the bombs. thomas aterbury is the special agent in charge of the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms. thanks for being with us tonight, guys. janelle, i will start with you. you were the bomber's first victim. what happened? >> we had attended an auction, my mother and i. and there was a flash light left out behind a couple of palm trees and i picked it up and as soon as i hit the button it exploded in my hand. >> judge jeanine: why did you pick up the flash light? >> it didn't seem out of place or unusual or anything? i looked at it and i thought wow, this is a nice flash light and it appeared to be new.
nothing about it seemed unusual. >> judge jeanine: so you pick up the flash light. and what do you do next? what happens next? >> i look at it. i wonder does it work. and so i kind of looked at it and then i faced it away from me and i pushed the button and that is when it exploded. >> judge jeanine: and you were injured. you were standing with your mother, were you not? >> yes, i was. she was about 3 to 4 feet away from me. >> judge jeanine: and was she injured as well? >> yes, she was. she was hit with the contents of the flash light and got some minor cuts and bruising as well. >> judge jeanine: and what injuries did you sustain, janelle? >> i had large bruise over my hands and just minor little cuts and bruises elsewhere. >> judge jeanine: and how are you doing now? >> i'm doing fine now. >> judge jeanine: good, good. what is the mood in the area where you
live, janelle? >> i don't know. i would say it is about the same. maybe people are on a little higher alert. it is don't pick up anything, that is the word going around. >> judge jeanine: all right. thank you, janelle. agent, how sophisticated a bomb can be placed in a flash light? >> good evening, judge. and thank you for bringing this to the public's attention. these devices i would not say are real sophisticated but they are not crude pipe bombs either. there is a level of sophistication and, sir, >> judge jeanine: is there anything about the components in the three bombs that have already gone off that in some way can identify the bomber? >> all three of the devices,
judge, have been the same. you know, we are working very closely with the glendale police department, phoenix police department, and the fbi, atf is leading the investigation. we submitted all of the evidence to our laboratory. and they are expediting the case. as far as the contents and componentry in the case for the integrity of the case i really can't get into that but there are unique components that have been placed in the imprevisessed explosive device disguised as a flash light. >> judge jeanine: what do you think the bomber is doing now? >> it is hard to say. i hope he is not building any more bombs. we tried to -- >> judge jeanine: what forced him to stop? >> well, i don't know the answer to that and that would be pure speck election day on my part. what we have done is we have flooded the media here in the
phoenix valley to bring it to the attention of all of the citizens of the area, the children are out of school now and the last thing that we want to have is for a child or innocent victim to pick up a flash light that doesn't belong to them and turn it on and lose a hand or arm or something like that. the challenge is none of the devices are targeted towards individuals or corporations or everything and this he have been randommy left. that is concerning to the fbi working these kind ofs of cases. >> judge jeanine: one at the salvation army of all places. how has this impacted law enforcement in the area? i have to congratulate you, i think the billboard on the flash light equals a bomb is fantastic. how is this impacting law enforcement? >> well, it is impacting law enforcement because they are getting a lot of hoax calls where people are finding
devices or flash lights that are similar to the tee vices that were ieds and the bomb squad has to go tout and make be sure it is not a a live device. at the end of the day it is better to be safe than sorry. i would urge the public and the good people of arizona if you see a flash light and it is not yours and it is out of place it is better to be safe than sorry. >> we flooded the media and worked closely with cbs outdoors they put up electronic billboards to bring this to the eye tension of the citizens. also if there is somebody out there that knows what the individual is doing when they build the devices, they will pick up the phone and call us. >> judge jeanine: how far would you go tore an x box. would you break into a house filled with poison gas? these guys would.
>> judge jeanine: now, it is time for one of my favorites, stupid criminals. our first either needs a new escape plan or a new diet. charles estelle steals $100,000 from a bank vault and tries to escape through the air duct. 11 hours later cops have to cut him out because the wedged in thief even had to snip off his dread lock wig. >> judge, how can you you say you know what they are and then
go straight to arthur? >> judge jeanine: listen, it is dog day afternoon in chicago, all right. a guy is confronted by the employees in the bank vault. he says i don't want to hurt you, i don't want to kill you, i just want the money. like al pacino. he take the money and runs, arthur. >> i believe through the ceiling which is how he comes in and going through the air ducts to get out and gets trapped wearing and the wig had something to do with -- i don't know how he got through. what is the lesson of the day, don't wear wigs, folks. you get hot and sweaty underneath them. >> not just the wig, it is a dread lock wig. big hair is out, number one. number two, judge, the obvious mark. crime doesn't pay. he didn't get a dime. why? because he was caught.
>> did he glue this wig on or something? >> judge jeanine: why couldn't he just take it off. >> don't tell about the internal workings. >> sorry. trade secrets out. >> judge jeanine: when you think of a las vegas heist, you think of these guys. >> in the 3,000 block of las vegas ballfield otherwise known as the bellagio and mgm grand. together one of the most profitable casinos in las vegas. we will rob it. >> what you don't think of is a thief pepper spraying the black jack dealer and then running off. he didn't get far before he was tackled, beaten and arrested. not by the police. mistake number one? >> he was also wearing a wig. i'm not joking!
i read the facts. he was also wearing a wig and the other two guys that weren't wearing a wig they got away and he is the only one who got caught. stay away with the wigs if you are going to be doing the robberies. just go au naturel. >> a bunch of surveillance. there is surveillance everywhere. is this the place you are going to do it and you are not taking money you are taking chips to cash out later and just think you are get out, are you serious? >> the bellagio. >> it keeps getting hit. remember the motorcycle bandit. takes 1.5 million bucks and he gets out. >> casino. there is more surveillance in a casino than there is the white house. >> judge jeanine: but not enough. they should double down on the surveillance. >> don't use pepper spray. >> judge jeanine: would you be willing to inhale poison gas
for an x box? three robbers tried to rob a tent ited house that was being fumigated. the owners put on sur veil cameras and go on air ipad and see them stealing everything in the house. >> the police came ten feet to the house and said it's poison, i can't do it. >> when they were leaving the police sur veiled and they get them. >> this wasn't much surveillance they just waited until the idiots come out. >> this is like back in the '80s, when the crack heads would try to steal for $10. going to risk everything for -- at least the other jerks who went into a bank for $100,000 and the bellagio for a pile of chips. come on. >> judge jeanine: my intern said it depends on the kind of
x box it was. >> the overhead is the thing with criminals. it is all profit. these guys are are like somebody trying to steal furniture out of a nuclear testing community in the '50s. they are morons and you can't cure stupid. but they will be defending them in five years because they have a lung disease. >> they will be suing. >> judge jeanine: and you know what will tell them, you. >> give that to joey. >> all right, guys. always great having you here. arthur, joey and mark, thanks. that is it for us tonight. thanks for joining us. if you have an unsolved case you want to us tackle here on "justice," e-mail us justice@ fox news .com. see us next week. same me. same time. same desk. my desk is fresh. we don't know he what happened. we are going to investigate